Hello,
we need to collect fractions in a prep HPLC system with a Valco Multiposition Valve. The Valve is controlled via event table and detector readings. That works fine.
With a second valve (2 Position Valco Valve) we want to rinse the fraction collector valve after each run (radioactive material). For that purpose we need to switch this second valve after each peak for some time to the other position (e.g. 10 seconds) and switch it back directly after that.
How can we work with a time frame in relation to the detected peak before. To make the first switch (Postion A to Position B) can easely be done by "Input<" but the switch back (B to A) does not work. "Time" can't be used because it means the time of the run and the peak time is slightly shifting.
Is there another way to do two outputs in this defined way? We can't use the detector because there is no usefull change in the signal while rinsing.
Thank you.
Claus Beninga
Fraktion Collection and Rinsing
Re: Fraktion Collection and Rinsing
Dear Claus
please could you add some details to your problem? Are you collecting single peak or several peaks during the run? Should the rinsing be performed immediately after each peak or sometimes before the end of run? Does your station have LC control module?
please could you add some details to your problem? Are you collecting single peak or several peaks during the run? Should the rinsing be performed immediately after each peak or sometimes before the end of run? Does your station have LC control module?
Ivan Vinš
Re: Fraktion Collection and Rinsing
Dear Ivan,
we have LC control and we can control all the valves, pumps and detectors.
We want to collect several peaks (up to 9 and one waste) automatically. We have a 10-port multi position valve for the fraction collection and one 4-port 2 position valve for rinsing.
The idea is to rinse the tubings past the column directly after each peak has left the column.
The sequence should be something like:
Initial:
Valve 1 (Fraction collection): Position 10 (Waste)
Valve 2 (Rinsing): Position A (Standard flow through the column)
Peak 1 reaches the detector:
Valve 1 Position 1 "Input>" (Collecting Fraction 1)
Peak 1 is almost out of the detector (
Valve 2 (Rinsing): Position B "Input<" (bypasses the column and rinse all tubings)
at the same time some seconds later (e.g. 10, depending on the tubing volume and the flow rate )
Valve 2 (Rinsing): Valve 2 (Rinsing): Position A (Standard flow through the column) and
Valve 1 (Fraction collection): back to Position 10 (Waste)
Peak 2 reaches the detector
Valve 1 Position 2 "Input>" (Collecting Fraction 2)
...
This should be done for each peak. The most difficult part is the last switch for both valves at the same time because we don't have a trigger signal. The best would be to use the the same signal we used for the event before plus some time delay. I have no idea how to do this.
Did I make myself clear?
Thank you.
Claus
we have LC control and we can control all the valves, pumps and detectors.
We want to collect several peaks (up to 9 and one waste) automatically. We have a 10-port multi position valve for the fraction collection and one 4-port 2 position valve for rinsing.
The idea is to rinse the tubings past the column directly after each peak has left the column.
The sequence should be something like:
Initial:
Valve 1 (Fraction collection): Position 10 (Waste)
Valve 2 (Rinsing): Position A (Standard flow through the column)
Peak 1 reaches the detector:
Valve 1 Position 1 "Input>" (Collecting Fraction 1)
Peak 1 is almost out of the detector (
Valve 2 (Rinsing): Position B "Input<" (bypasses the column and rinse all tubings)
at the same time some seconds later (e.g. 10, depending on the tubing volume and the flow rate )
Valve 2 (Rinsing): Valve 2 (Rinsing): Position A (Standard flow through the column) and
Valve 1 (Fraction collection): back to Position 10 (Waste)
Peak 2 reaches the detector
Valve 1 Position 2 "Input>" (Collecting Fraction 2)
...
This should be done for each peak. The most difficult part is the last switch for both valves at the same time because we don't have a trigger signal. The best would be to use the the same signal we used for the event before plus some time delay. I have no idea how to do this.
Did I make myself clear?
Thank you.
Claus
Re: Fraktion Collection and Rinsing
Dear Claus,
thank you for the explanation. I am looking for some solution or possible workaround.
best regards
thank you for the explanation. I am looking for some solution or possible workaround.
best regards
Ivan Vinš
Re: Fraktion Collection and Rinsing
Dear Claus
I will suggest to configure the General purpose Fraction collector, it will allow you to specify delay time and use more conditions to trigger fraction collection as well as to record the conditions and highlight collected fractions in the chromatogram.
http://downloads.dataapex.com/documenta ... -FC-GP.pdf
You will need to add another valve (cheap 3 way diverter solenoid will do) to perform the collect/waste commands - Clarity allows to specify for the valve control either fixed position or increment current one from the Event table - not a combination needed for the above described sequence of steps.
The system scheme will be
The GP-FC changes states of virtual digital outputs to perform the Next fraction and Collect/Waste commands.
Those outputs need to be used as event source (Digital input) in the event table to trigger the corresponding action.
The Next command should be assigned to the multiposition valve control, to perform Next position
For the Waste command some workaround is needed, as Clarity does not support delayed execution of actions.
In the new Clarity Preliminary version available on our web pages is a new auxiliary device implemented - Virtual input/output loop. It just simulates interconnection between digital input and output. You should configure it to be activated by the Waste command and set a Pulse output option. Its state will change for a specified time period (default is 1000 ms, could be changed by amending the clarity.ini file in the Windows installation directory). It should be then used to trigger the rinsing and diverter valves. The Rinsing valve should turn to rinse position when the virtual digital I/O is activated and back to standard position when it is deactivated. The diverter valve should turn to waste together with the return of the rinsing valve. The Collect command should just turn the diverter valve to Collect position.
Please feel free to contact me for further details
I will suggest to configure the General purpose Fraction collector, it will allow you to specify delay time and use more conditions to trigger fraction collection as well as to record the conditions and highlight collected fractions in the chromatogram.
http://downloads.dataapex.com/documenta ... -FC-GP.pdf
You will need to add another valve (cheap 3 way diverter solenoid will do) to perform the collect/waste commands - Clarity allows to specify for the valve control either fixed position or increment current one from the Event table - not a combination needed for the above described sequence of steps.
The system scheme will be
Those outputs need to be used as event source (Digital input) in the event table to trigger the corresponding action.
The Next command should be assigned to the multiposition valve control, to perform Next position
For the Waste command some workaround is needed, as Clarity does not support delayed execution of actions.
In the new Clarity Preliminary version available on our web pages is a new auxiliary device implemented - Virtual input/output loop. It just simulates interconnection between digital input and output. You should configure it to be activated by the Waste command and set a Pulse output option. Its state will change for a specified time period (default is 1000 ms, could be changed by amending the clarity.ini file in the Windows installation directory). It should be then used to trigger the rinsing and diverter valves. The Rinsing valve should turn to rinse position when the virtual digital I/O is activated and back to standard position when it is deactivated. The diverter valve should turn to waste together with the return of the rinsing valve. The Collect command should just turn the diverter valve to Collect position.
Please feel free to contact me for further details
Ivan Vinš
Re: Fraktion Collection and Rinsing
Dear Ivan,
thank you for the scheme (it is exactly what we try to implement) and the explanation We were thinking in the same direction, but got stuck with the "Collect" and "Next" of the vitual fraction collector.
I will try the solution as soon as possible. Do you have a source for the cheap 3 way diverter solenoid valveI think it has to be a RS232 interface.
Thank you.
Claus
thank you for the scheme (it is exactly what we try to implement) and the explanation We were thinking in the same direction, but got stuck with the "Collect" and "Next" of the vitual fraction collector.
I will try the solution as soon as possible. Do you have a source for the cheap 3 way diverter solenoid valveI think it has to be a RS232 interface.
Thank you.
Claus
Re: Fraktion Collection and Rinsing
Dear Ivan,
we got a valve for this.
Do you have a example how to set up the FC and event table and Virtual input/output loop (Manual for the 2.7.)? We are not able to configure Clarity (2.7.xxxx) in that specific case.
When do you publish the 2.7.xx final version and the manual for it? We can't use a beta version in a lab.
Thank you.
Claus
we got a valve for this.
Do you have a example how to set up the FC and event table and Virtual input/output loop (Manual for the 2.7.)? We are not able to configure Clarity (2.7.xxxx) in that specific case.
When do you publish the 2.7.xx final version and the manual for it? We can't use a beta version in a lab.
Thank you.
Claus
-
Petr Kohutek
- DataApex Support
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:15 pm
- Location: Praha
- Contact:
Re: Fraktion Collection and Rinsing
Dear Claus
Ivan will be here next week, then he will be able to help with the connection. I cannot give a fixed date of the release now, there are still some issues opened from the testing of the beta version, however I expect the release in term of weeks.
Petr
Ivan will be here next week, then he will be able to help with the connection. I cannot give a fixed date of the release now, there are still some issues opened from the testing of the beta version, however I expect the release in term of weeks.
Petr
Petr Kohutek
DataApex
DataApex
Re: Fraktion Collection and Rinsing
Dear Claus,
I am sorry for the late reply. During testing an Event table setup for you I have found a minor problem with using the Waste FC GP command to triger the wash procedure - the command is initialized at the start of run to ensure the collect/waste valve is in waste position. In the suggested setup it will cause performing of a wash immediately after run start - in case the run will be triggered by injection, it will lead to loss of the sample.
The official release of version 2.7 is planned to end of June, I believe this problem will be solved before it.
I am sorry for the late reply. During testing an Event table setup for you I have found a minor problem with using the Waste FC GP command to triger the wash procedure - the command is initialized at the start of run to ensure the collect/waste valve is in waste position. In the suggested setup it will cause performing of a wash immediately after run start - in case the run will be triggered by injection, it will lead to loss of the sample.
The official release of version 2.7 is planned to end of June, I believe this problem will be solved before it.
Ivan Vinš
Re: Fraktion Collection and Rinsing
Dear Ivan,
thank you for the response.
We tried the latest Beta Version from today and run in some troubles. Your description is correct and on the other side we could not start a run because the software did not accept the start command from the autosampler or manual input.
The 2.6 and 2.7.1 versions work fine in this case.
Do you know already about this issue?
Thank you.
Claus
thank you for the response.
We tried the latest Beta Version from today and run in some troubles. Your description is correct and on the other side we could not start a run because the software did not accept the start command from the autosampler or manual input.
The 2.6 and 2.7.1 versions work fine in this case.
Do you know already about this issue?
Thank you.
Claus
